Stephen Cass: Whats up and welcome to Fixing the Future, an IEEE Spectrum podcast, the place we take a look at concrete options to some huge issues. I’m your host, Stephen Cass, a senior editor at IEEE Spectrum. And earlier than we begin, I simply need to let you know that you would be able to get the newest protection from a few of Spectrum’s most necessary beats, together with AI, climate change, and robotics, by signing up for considered one of our free newsletters. Simply go to spectrum.ieee.org/newsletters to subscribe. Sustainable electronics is turning into an more and more necessary matter around the globe, and at present we’re going to be speaking with Liisa Hakola, a senior scientist at VTT in Finland, in regards to the European Union’s Sustronics program aimed toward this very matter. I’d prefer to welcome you to the present. Thanks a lot, Liisa.
Liisa Hakola: Thanks. Good to be right here. Thanks for inviting.
Cass: You’re very welcome. In order I mentioned, sustainable electronics is turning into a much bigger and larger matter, however it appears to be a kind of issues that individuals speak about it greater than truly doing something about it. How is the EU Sustronics undertaking going to assist with that, and the place does VTT match into that?
Hakola: Thanks for the query. Certainly, the Sustronics undertaking is a big initiative with 46 companions from 11 completely different European international locations. And our major matter is about discovering methods to make electronics extra sustainable all through their life cycle. So not simply specializing in one side however making an allowance for completely different alternatives which may come up from number of supplies or manufacturing applied sciences or round financial methods that may very well be used. And VTT’s position is, to begin with, to be the technical supervisor of the undertaking to make sure that the completely different companions work collectively and the completely different actions are interacting with one another to be able to have a joint effort. However on high of that, VTT additionally brings a few of its applied sciences, primarily from printed electronics, to the undertaking.
Cass: Is it a case that you just search for business companions who then are available and work with you? They appear round. They assume you’re match throughout the program. Or are you actively looking for individuals and going, “Oh, we predict we’ve some expertise which may assist you to out right here”?
Hakola: Effectively, mainly, I feel they’re each methods. In fact, there are 46 companions already within the consortium, and over half of them are from the business, massive enterprises and SMEs. So after all, they’ve particular wants, and we’ve been already agreeing through the proposal section that VTT might provide sure applied sciences for them to then begin testing for his or her merchandise and if that would assist with reducing their environmental footprint.
Cass: I suppose the query is, why would anyone be part of this system, particularly for those who’re a producer and so forth? I imply, as a citizen of Earth, I feel it’s a fantastic concept, however we frequently hear about bottom-line points and so forth. What’s the motivation, in case you are any person who’s making electronics, to develop into considered one of these companions?
Hakola: Effectively, to begin with, within the EU, we’ve this Green Deal. So the laws and the laws is growing right into a course the place the entire corporations within the EU should take note of the sustainability points of the merchandise they’re growing and promoting. So to be able to obtain that, to have the ability to meet the necessities coming from the EU aspect, the businesses must develop new methods to take care of or enhance sustainability of their merchandise. And that is one alternative as a result of collaborating with the analysis institutes and universities, the businesses get entry to sort of applied sciences which have been in improvement in these, after which they will attempt them out in their very own merchandise, after which in that method to get nearer to assembly the sustainability necessities.
Cass: So we’re primarily based in New York, in the USA, the place it’s fairly a special regulatory regime. However are you able to inform me, what’s the enforcement mechanism for these sustainability laws? What occurs for those who don’t do it? As a result of I can think about some individuals simply considering, oh, it’s only a slap on the wrist, or it’s a superb. It’s only a value of doing enterprise. How is these guidelines actually enforced?
Hakola: Effectively, after all, EU is growing the laws on a regular basis, so there may come new enforcements sooner or later. However the upcoming regulation about ecodesign for sustainable merchandise, in order that regulation calls for that there’s going to be a digital product passport that might give details about the environmental impression of the product. And that sort of data could be accessible even for shoppers. So truly, if the shoppers are environmentally conscious, they might begin choosing the merchandise which are environmentally pleasant. In order that’s, after all, fairly sturdy method to make corporations work in direction of making extra sustainable merchandise. As a result of if shoppers begin choosing the sustainable merchandise, then the non-sustainable ones will lose their market share.
Cass: So that you talked somewhat bit earlier about your complete kind of lifecycle and sustainability. Alongside that life cycle, what are a number of the largest obstacles that at the moment exist in direction of making electronics extra sustainable?
Hakola: Effectively, there are a few issues which are fairly dominant. So to begin with, the uncooked supplies which are used for making digital merchandise, they’re largely fossil-based, like completely different metals which are wanted for making conductive constructions. And in addition, the substrates the place the metals are put, they’re often primarily based on some plastics or plastic composite supplies. After which we are literally speaking about supplies which are important or uncommon or fairly priceless. So it’s fairly a problem to seek out supplies that would substitute the prevailing supplies as a result of we all know that these are well-performing. So can we truly discover some sustainable alternate options for them?
And one other factor is, after all, that the processes which are used for making circuit boards, for instance, they devour numerous vitality and uncooked supplies. And that, after all, shouldn’t be superb for the surroundings as a result of it’s not very vitality or materials environment friendly to fabricate in a manner that plenty of materials is wasted and processed a number of instances. And naturally, the entire electronics business is kind of complicated and fragmented business. There are plenty of layers, and it’s actually tough to get all of them to work collectively and kind of transparently switch information and knowledge between the completely different gamers.
Cass: So I’d like to enter that—and possibly that is a few of VTT’s particular experience—and speak somewhat in regards to the work that you just’ve carried out in supplies particularly then.
Hakola: Sure. So VTT has centered quite a bit on changing the fossil-based substrate supplies with supplies which are bio-based or renewable supplies. And nicely, in Finland, the forest business has usually been fairly sturdy. So after all, we’ve studied methods to use the cellulose-based supplies like paper as a substrate for electronics. However there are additionally plenty of these biopolymer-based substrates that are– mainly, they feel and appear like plastics, however they’re from bio-based assets, so they’re sort of renewable. And a few of them are very easy to recycle, or a few of them may even be compostable.
Cass: You mentioned compostable there. I’m somewhat apprehensive as a result of I’ve these compostable plastic luggage in my kitchen that simply don’t final very lengthy. And so while you say that, I’m somewhat involved about placing that in my electronics. Or is it for very short-lived kind of disposable electronics, given a few of them have very brief life cycles?
Hakola: Sure. If we’re speaking about utilizing printing as a producing expertise, so then after all we’re in a position to manufacture electronics which have a shorter lifetime, and they are often even used only one time. However for those who produce plenty of electronics that’s for single-use function, then truly you’re creating plenty of new digital waste. So it’s important to in some way sort out this difficulty with having single-use electronics, however then with the ability to in some way recycle or dispose that electronics. And in that case, if there’s, for instance, some diagnostic system the place you measure one thing, then most likely there could be a single-use half on that system that would then most likely be compostable. However then there would even be a reusable half. So after performing some diagnostic measurements, you modify just one piece of the system, after which that changeable half would then be compostable. Or it will also be that the recycling course of is established, and it might be simply recyclable. However in that sort of circumstances, you may take into consideration the compostable options additionally.
Cass: So I’d like to speak somewhat bit extra about recycling there. Digital waste is notoriously very tough to waste. We have now to separate out our digital waste and we’ve to place it elsewhere. There are particular pickup days, which I do dutifully. However then I typically take into consideration when all these items is placed on the valley, how is anyone going to realistically recycle that 10-year-old damaged projector or these assortment of printers and so forth? How do you make recycling work higher?
Hakola: Effectively, yeah, that’s after all a matter of— to begin with, it’s essential to set up the recycling course of, and there must be completely different assortment bins the place individuals might dispose their electronics. However after all, I come from Finland. Truly, in my house the place I dwell, there are one thing like seven completely different recycling bins the place I put the completely different kind of waste. So including there eighth bin for electronics wouldn’t be that huge of a problem. However for those who assume recycling additionally from the scratch, then the digital gadgets truly should be designed in a manner that they’re higher for recycling. So we speak about round design, for instance. Already within the design section of the merchandise, you truly take into consideration the recycling after which design the electronics in a manner that it’s, for instance, modular, so you’ll be able to disintegrate the completely different parts simply and recuperate the supplies. So truly, every thing begins within the design section.
Cass: Does this additionally assist with issues like serviceability or repairability? I discover myself that typically it’s simpler for me to repair something that is 40 years old. I’ve introduced these merchandise again from the lifeless. However a product I purchase at present, it’s a blob. I’ve to make use of very specialised instruments to get it open, if I can. I usually should ship away for a particular package. Is a part of this design course of additionally these points?
Hakola: Sure, sure. That’s the identical factor that already within the design section. Design the gadgets in a manner that elements will be changed in a while, and other people don’t have to purchase the brand new mannequin. I perceive that, after all, for the electronics corporations, their enterprise to promote new fashions on a regular basis. However maybe they will discover a appropriate enterprise mannequin additionally from repairing the gadgets. There may very well be some enterprise alternatives additionally.
Cass: So that you talked somewhat bit about manufacturing processes and making these somewhat bit extra sustainable. Are you able to develop on that?
Hakola: So what VTT has been growing for over 20 years is printed electronics. So it implies that we’re utilizing printing as a producing expertise for electronics. And in comparison with the present state-of-the-art electronics manufacturing, printing is an additive methodology. So we truly add supplies solely the place they’re wanted, and we don’t strip them away in a while after which attempt to determine what to do with that sort of materials. In order that’s a possibility for digital manufacturing to lower its materials but in addition vitality consumption. We have now carried out some life cycle evaluation evaluation the place it has been proven that the printed electronics consumes much less vitality throughout manufacturing than conventional manufacturing. So there’s truly already a possibility there. However in addition to this vitality difficulty, the bio-based and renewable substrate supplies are already suitable with the printing expertise. It’s truly fairly difficult to print these, for instance, paper as a substrate to conventional digital manufacturing. However for printing, it’s fairly simple as a result of that you would be able to print on paper, so utilizing that to make electronics is a sort of simpler process.
Cass: So are you able to speak somewhat bit about a number of the kind of very concrete examples you’ve developed with a few of your companions?
Hakola: Sure. So if you consider the Sustronics program– so there are literally plenty of improvement for these single-use diagnostic gadgets. So the objective is to develop the sort of gadgets that individuals can truly even use at residence to measure one thing from their saliva, or they will monitor how the wound is therapeutic by having only a plaster-type wearable system on the pores and skin. And different issues that we’re growing are additionally these different wearable gadgets that aren’t for single use, however they’re for sports activities and health sector the place you’ll be able to monitor how you’re doing if you find yourself exercising and you may even measure your coronary heart price, after which the app would– the app you’ll have in your cell phone would then let you know primarily based on the measurement information that, okay, you probably did nicely at present or one thing else.
And one utility space that VTT has been growing quite a bit gadgets already within the earlier analysis packages are these options for clever packaging. So if we speak in regards to the packaging business, and there’s a lot of wants within the logistics of packages to measure, for instance, temperature to be sure that the chilly chain has not been damaged and your merchandise are usually not spoiling. So VTT has been growing electronics for that, like sensors connected to packages, digital sensors that may transmit data to cell phone. But when you consider the packaging business, the packages are recyclable. So then truly we’re including electronics there, then the sustainability of those sort of good tags, how we might name them, could be a very necessary side to think about. And there, these new sort of supplies like utilizing paper as a substrate for electronics have a very necessary position.
Cass: And the way lengthy do you assume it’ll be earlier than we begin seeing these within the market as one thing that buyers can kind of see and really feel for themselves?
Hakola: Effectively, truly, a few of them are already on {the marketplace}. In fact, not in actually large volumes. However there are, for instance, contract producers for printed electronics that manufacture one thing that’s used as part of a tool that’s bought available in the market. However after all, we are able to’t print a cell phone with these sort of applied sciences, at the least not but. So it relies upon. Maybe a few of them are already there. For a few of them, it’d take three to 5 years, and a few even longer. However let’s say through the subsequent decade, there will surely be product bulletins.
Cass: And so that you talked about producers. The place are these producers positioned? Are they native producers, or is that this one thing that we are able to see that’s being built-in into the worldwide provide chain when it comes to these nice manufacturing facilities in China, for instance?
Hakola: Yeah. Effectively, after all, the printed electronics contract producers, they aren’t actually massive corporations but. They’re nonetheless on the early section, and they’re positioned all around the globe. In all probability fairly lots of them within the Europe, as a result of in Europe, we’ve been investigating printed electronics quite a bit. However yeah, there isn’t any difficulty why they couldn’t be a part of the worldwide provide chains. However as we predict, “What’s the technique of the EU?”, we truly need to– the EU needs to additionally transfer once more again to the European provide chains additionally to kind of keep the native strategic availability of key applied sciences. So I feel within the EU, there could be most likely fairly sturdy help sooner or later for making extra producers coming again to Europe or at the least establishing new manufacturing items to Europe.
Cass: So for those who might wave a magic wand and clear up one drawback proper now that’s in your desk, what would that be?
Hakola: Ah. Effectively, most likely I might make the merchandise extra repairable or reusable. I’ve personally had some points with the gadgets just lately, and it has been a little bit of annoying that there isn’t any restore choice. So I’ve been pressured to purchase new gadgets, though I’ve not wished to take action. So most likely I might change the enterprise a bit that the restore would at all times be an choice except you’ve got one thing that’s like 50 years previous. Maybe that might be a problem. However even for a 5-year-old system, it might be good to have a restore choice. So I suppose I might develop the sort of design for the electronics that they actually will be repaired or reused.
Cass: Are you able to speak somewhat bit extra about Finland’s historical past with— you mentioned it has this historical past popping out of the cellulose business. So are you able to speak somewhat bit extra about that time, about how Finland’s expertise with cellulose and paper kind of fed into this program?
Hakola: Yeah. Maybe the background is in order that Finland has an extended historical past of paper and forest applied sciences. And the primary printed electronics tasks that have been initiated in Finland greater than 20 years in the past, there the position of the paper corporations in Finland was actually sturdy. So truly, at the least in Finland, how we began to research printed electronics, the initiative was involving numerous these forest business corporations. And that’s how we additionally at VTT bought concerned with utilizing cellulose-based and paper as a substrate for electronics. And if you consider the sustainable electronics, the paper has been there first and solely later got here the opposite alternate options like biopolymers. So I suppose within the early stage, the paper business was truly in search of new enterprise alternatives. They usually thought that it may be discovered from printed electronics as a result of printing on paper is one thing that’s being carried out on a regular basis. In order that’s how I feel the factor began, at the least in Finland.
Cass: So this can be a fascinating matter, which we might speak about all day, however I’m afraid we’ve to go away it there. As we speak we have been speaking with Liisa Hakola from VTT about sustainable electronics. It was so pretty to have you ever on the present.
Hakola: Thanks. It was pretty being right here.
Cass: And for IEEE Spectrum, I’m Stephen Cass, and I hope you be part of us subsequent time on Fixing the Future.